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Comments on: Cry Freedom http://game-research.com The art, business, and science of video games Thu, 09 Sep 2010 21:26:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: jonas http://game-research.com/index.php/columns/cry-freedom/#comment-1536 jonas Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:39:35 +0000 http://game-research.com/2/?page_id=53#comment-1536 @Tim <blockquote>1) The immersive world isn’t immersive enough for you, so you go back to shooters which are exactly the same every time you play them?</blockquote> Hmm... I actually prefer RTS games these days. It's not that shooters etc. are better, my argument was that they are more honest and fulfill their potential more surely. <blockquote>2) A lot of time is spent making sure that you travel through the world. It’s a storyline that you follow. Technical limitations make it very difficult to completely hide the fact that the next guy is coming down the road after you, but you are expected to move on and not notice too much. The world has changed for *you*. *You* will be thanked by the distressed villager and never again asked to kill the rampaging monster. Yes, it requires a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. </blockquote> Either you're in a living persistent world or you ain't. If I suspend enough disbelief I could probably find most games to be narratively compelling. Certainly, on a good day it works for *me*. But on too many days, it just seems plain disappointing. <blockquote>3) Plenty of “the users make the world” MMO games are out there. If that’s what you want, find one and review that type of game. You did the equivilent of playing a 2-D real-time strategy game and complaining that it didn’t live up to your expectations of a 2-D adventure game.</blockquote> Well, in a sense you're right. But I was really pointing to what I think is lost potential in the interesting large-scale MMOs. For what it's worth I do think MMOs have become more fun than they were in 2002 when I wrote this text. <blockquote>4) Even the game you were playing was probably much more freeform than you gave it credit for. Many MMORPGs don’t *require* that you help the villagers. Doing the quests usually results in extra money, bonus items, and extra experience / levelling, but it is rarely required and you are usually free to roam the countryside as you see fit. In many, you can even become a fisherman or craftsman and practically never fight or search out riches. Were you even engaging your free will, or were you just being herded along? Who are you really disappointed with: the game designers for not providing enough free will, or yourself for not using any?</blockquote> If I just wanted to roam the countryside etc. I could find any non-gaming virtual world, or indeed go for a walk in a real-life forest. Clearly, different paths ARE open to the MMO player but I don' think the path to really making a worthwhile impact on the world is open. So I'd say I'm disappointed with the game designers. - Jonas @Tim

1) The immersive world isn’t immersive enough for you, so you go back to shooters which are exactly the same every time you play them?

Hmm… I actually prefer RTS games these days. It’s not that shooters etc. are better, my argument was that they are more honest and fulfill their potential more surely.

2) A lot of time is spent making sure that you travel through the world. It’s a storyline that you follow. Technical limitations make it very difficult to completely hide the fact that the next guy is coming down the road after you, but you are expected to move on and not notice too much. The world has changed for *you*. *You* will be thanked by the distressed villager and never again asked to kill the rampaging monster. Yes, it requires a certain amount of suspension of disbelief.

Either you’re in a living persistent world or you ain’t. If I suspend enough disbelief I could probably find most games to be narratively compelling. Certainly, on a good day it works for *me*. But on too many days, it just seems plain disappointing.

3) Plenty of “the users make the world” MMO games are out there. If that’s what you want, find one and review that type of game. You did the equivilent of playing a 2-D real-time strategy game and complaining that it didn’t live up to your expectations of a 2-D adventure game.

Well, in a sense you’re right. But I was really pointing to what I think is lost potential in the interesting large-scale MMOs. For what it’s worth I do think MMOs have become more fun than they were in 2002 when I wrote this text.

4) Even the game you were playing was probably much more freeform than you gave it credit for. Many MMORPGs don’t *require* that you help the villagers. Doing the quests usually results in extra money, bonus items, and extra experience / levelling, but it is rarely required and you are usually free to roam the countryside as you see fit. In many, you can even become a fisherman or craftsman and practically never fight or search out riches. Were you even engaging your free will, or were you just being herded along? Who are you really disappointed with: the game designers for not providing enough free will, or yourself for not using any?

If I just wanted to roam the countryside etc. I could find any non-gaming virtual world, or indeed go for a walk in a real-life forest. Clearly, different paths ARE open to the MMO player but I don’ think the path to really making a worthwhile impact on the world is open. So I’d say I’m disappointed with the game designers.

- Jonas

]]> By: jonas http://game-research.com/index.php/columns/cry-freedom/#comment-1515 jonas Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:23:12 +0000 http://game-research.com/2/?page_id=53#comment-1515 Hi Tim, Thanks for the comment. I'll have to get back to you as soon as possible. Just one thing right now: The text had a wrong publication date, it's actually 4 years old. Just for the record. - Jonas Hi Tim,

Thanks for the comment. I’ll have to get back to you as soon as possible.
Just one thing right now: The text had a wrong publication date, it’s actually 4 years old. Just for the record.

- Jonas

]]> By: Tim http://game-research.com/index.php/columns/cry-freedom/#comment-1497 Tim Wed, 15 Nov 2006 00:12:42 +0000 http://game-research.com/2/?page_id=53#comment-1497 Surely, you jest! 1) The immersive world isn't immersive enough for you, so you go back to shooters which are exactly the same every time you play them? 2) A lot of time is spent making sure that you travel through the world. It's a storyline that you follow. Technical limitations make it very difficult to completely hide the fact that the next guy is coming down the road after you, but you are expected to move on and not notice too much. The world has changed for *you*. *You* will be thanked by the distressed villager and never again asked to kill the rampaging monster. Yes, it requires a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. 3) Plenty of "the users make the world" MMO games are out there. If that's what you want, find one and review that type of game. You did the equivilent of playing a 2-D real-time strategy game and complaining that it didn't live up to your expectations of a 2-D adventure game. 4) Even the game you were playing was probably much more freeform than you gave it credit for. Many MMORPGs don't *require* that you help the villagers. Doing the quests usually results in extra money, bonus items, and extra experience / levelling, but it is rarely required and you are usually free to roam the countryside as you see fit. In many, you can even become a fisherman or craftsman and practically never fight or search out riches. Were you even engaging your free will, or were you just being herded along? Who are you really disappointed with: the game designers for not providing enough free will, or yourself for not using any? Surely, you jest!
1) The immersive world isn’t immersive enough for you, so you go back to shooters which are exactly the same every time you play them?

2) A lot of time is spent making sure that you travel through the world. It’s a storyline that you follow. Technical limitations make it very difficult to completely hide the fact that the next guy is coming down the road after you, but you are expected to move on and not notice too much. The world has changed for *you*. *You* will be thanked by the distressed villager and never again asked to kill the rampaging monster. Yes, it requires a certain amount of suspension of disbelief.

3) Plenty of “the users make the world” MMO games are out there. If that’s what you want, find one and review that type of game. You did the equivilent of playing a 2-D real-time strategy game and complaining that it didn’t live up to your expectations of a 2-D adventure game.

4) Even the game you were playing was probably much more freeform than you gave it credit for. Many MMORPGs don’t *require* that you help the villagers. Doing the quests usually results in extra money, bonus items, and extra experience / levelling, but it is rarely required and you are usually free to roam the countryside as you see fit. In many, you can even become a fisherman or craftsman and practically never fight or search out riches. Were you even engaging your free will, or were you just being herded along? Who are you really disappointed with: the game designers for not providing enough free will, or yourself for not using any?

]]>